Friday, 06 November 2009 21:09
Religion and science have always been at odds with each other. Religion says science can't prove that God does not exist. Science says religion can't prove that God does. Another thing that science and religion can't agree on is the age of mother earth. Let us see what both religion and science have to argue about the matter.
NO HOLDS BARRED
Raja Petra Kamarudin
Archbishop James Ussher of Armagh, Ireland, attempted to find the age of the earth by following the chronological genealogies in the scriptures. His erroneous calculations greatly influenced Christians of his day. For example, he calculated 1 BC to 1 AD, by counting the year zero. The problem was, there is no year zero. In other words, if an event occurs in 1 BC, and lasts to 1 AD, this is only 1 year. So, in order to get an accurate count when crossing the year zero, we must always adjust for this. Archbishop Ussher did not, and this threw his whole calendar off. One might charitably say that this was an easy mistake to make, nevertheless it also illustrates the carelessness with which he made decisions concerning numbers.
Many Christians of his day quickly accepted his date of creation as 4004 BC, and unfortunately it was placed within the margin of the King James Bible as a reference. This action immediately gave it a certain credibility, authority, and widespread appeal to the public. However, it was in no way a legitimate study of the age of the earth.
The Jews have another calculation. 30 September 2008 through 18 September 2009 corresponded to Hebrew year 5769 while the Hebrew year 5770 began at sundown on the evening of 18 September 2009 and will end on 8 September 2010.
The year 5770 on the Jewish calendar represents the number of years since God created the world, as calculated by adding up the ages of people in the Bible back to the time of creation. However, it is important to note that this date is not necessarily supposed to represent a scientific fact.
So there you have it. The world is only 5,770 years old according to the Jews. Some believe it is 10,000 years old. Going by the genealogies of Genesis 5 and 11, though, the world was created on 11013 BC. That makes the world 13,022 years old according to some Christians.
The scientists say the world is billions of years old.
Who is correct? Religion or science?
COMMENTS [81]:
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written by eagle22, November 06, 2009 21:49:53
Pete,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
this is great, take a break.
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written by Watchdog, November 06, 2009 21:52:27
Mahathir will have his answer which he will claim is right.
Samy will have his 'act of God; answer
Toyol will say his dukuns in Indonesia have the answer
The Pirate of Pangkor will look up the Hindu almanac and keep quiet about where he got his answer
Ghani Ptui el will look to Najib for the answer
Najib will check the Mongolian calendar
Hassan Ali will cross over to Sadao in Thailand to get some answer ( and get inspiration with perspiration)
And I dont give a shit how old the planet is because it is not going to make Malaysia any better knowing it!!!!!!!!!!
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written by quietguy, November 06, 2009 21:58:43
RPK, you claim to compare religion with science, but you only mention Christianity and Judaism. Not all religions make such nonsensical claims.
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written by tom73my, November 06, 2009 22:29:41
Hi RPK,
Ricky Gervais speaks about animal and bible. Funny but worth having a thought about religion. Have a good weekend!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_EXqdJ4L7I
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written by Wudan, November 06, 2009 22:39:23
Thanks RPK, now I know how to answer my nephew when he asked why dinosaurs are not mentioned in the bible and especially none are found in Noah's Ark.
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written by CatV5, November 06, 2009 22:46:34
Here's some interesting stuff to ponder
2 billion years for life
6 million years for hominid
100,000 years for mankind as we know it
10,000 years agriculture
400 years scientific revolution
150 years industrial revolution
50 year information age?
10 year?
1 year?
1 day?
neo human? homo spiritus? We're all dead?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saxX-Z6w3p4)
we're seeing an acceleration of evolution here guys... don't be stuck on the old paradigm... like it or not the evolution wave is coming...
Those who still hold to the old belief let them go... forget those baggage... let's embrace a new thinking. Discover new possibilities...
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written by cylee, November 06, 2009 22:48:20
This is my hard questions to those Muslim Hypocrite too...
"Oih...Mohamed Khusrin Munawi.. apakah mak engkau takda rahim ke? kamu ni lahir kedunia ni dari lubang mana? kalau bukan rahim? ka.. kamu keluar dari lubang najis mak kau? patutlah.. mulut dan otak kau ni busuk lagi tak guna macam najis.
kalau lah kamu tak hormat mak engkau, janganlah sampai perempuan sedunia kamu hina. U tahu tak Rahim tu adalah lubang yang paling suci? Tempat ni selain bagi kamu shok tak habis, ia juga adalah pintu untuk semua umat manusia langkah masuk ke dunia ni,.. termasuk Propet Mohamed.
Oi si KJ ketua pemuda UMNO apa kata kamu ...? adakah kamu pun setuju dengan si Khusdis ni? Janganlah hanya tahu nak shyok dengan lubang rahim tu saja... bila sebulan sekali ia datang kitaran haid, kamu tuduh rahim tu kotor pulak.. cuma kerana waktu 7 hari tu you tak boleh shyok..?? Hamsap betullah pemuda umno dan Hipokrit pengarah JAIS in.. bertauliah kunon??? Dan bagi maklumat kamu..stiap masa ada bejuta wanita yang sengsara kerana kitaran haid yang tak teratur atau tak datang haid langsung?? Adakah kamu ni nak disumpah semua kerabat wanita keluarga kamu akan tak ada kitaran haid?? memandangkan kamu ni adalah begitu hina bagi perkara ni..Buat malu umat islam sahaja. Ajaran sesat umno apa ni..? yang dia ni ikut?
Jangan lupa Tuhan sentiasa tahu apa yang kamu niat dalam hati.. dan Tuhan adalah paling murka mereka yang berlagak atas namaNya"
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written by SocratesI, November 06, 2009 22:57:40
This is quite simple to understand. The Age of the present day Civilization is as old as anyone can remember from the ancient records, maybe up to 13,000 years old. However, there may have been many cycles of Civilizations each having been wiped out by some global catastrophe, switching over of the North & South poles, meteors/ asteroids hitting the Earth, shifting of the Earth's axis (The Artic & Antartic used to be at the Equator, and will be again someday), extra strong solar winds from the Sun, extra strong Cosmic winds once the Sun aligns with the Earth and the Centre of the Milky Way Galaxy, (2012 - this is due to happen), super-volcanoes, etc.
Science meanwhile, is measuring with carbon-dating and other methods, the age of the planet Earth, and that is millions of years. After all, now that we can see almost to the centre of our Universe, we can see the moment of the Big Bang and the Universe is 13.4 Billion years old according to the light years calculated.
So where religion is talking about Civilization, science is talking about the Age of the Earth. Of course we get different results !
.
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written by miwaki, November 06, 2009 23:03:09
By the way,when was God created ?
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written by Proarte, November 06, 2009 23:05:46
Actually it is not true that Judaism and Christianity mention the age of the earth. The age is based on speculation and ones man guess is good as another.
Was Adam created by God as a infant? Who clothed and breast fed infant Adam? In the Bible it describes Adam as a grown man when he was 1st created. He may have 'lived' 930 years on earth but how old was he when he was 'created'? He could have been 4 billion years old!!
The apostle Peter wrote: “ do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” (2 Peter 3:.
One can conclude from that statement that God is outside time.
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written by Oscar Winner, November 06, 2009 23:40:40
Till God appears in front of me or gives me some signs, I will not accept whatever that has been said about when earth was created, which religion is great, right or wrong. Damn, I do good as much as I can. If that still leads me to hell, so be it. Like TDM's famous line...."Has anyone from Pas gone to heaven and come back to tell you that you will go to heaven if you join Pas??" Damn...!!! How old is planet earth?? UMNO has the answer. They are god, aren't they??
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written by truthbespoken, November 06, 2009 23:51:34
Thanks eagle22. I enjoyed your u-tube posting tremendously. Hahahahahahahahahaha!
George Carlin is both a funny and intelligent old comedian. Experience and good sense is certainly reflected from what he said.. take a break guys..hahahahahaha!
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written by Umar Rentaka, November 07, 2009 00:27:47
Seeesh..... The Srimad Bhagavatam says the universe is more than 150 trillion years old.
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written by Steven Ong, November 07, 2009 00:30:38
Its only the opinions of man. As God created all things , then science is from God. And many things are yet to be discovered . What we knew today looks like a grain of sand on the beach and yet we dare to say that God does not exist? Those who asked.' Who created God?' seems to forget the the hairs on his head ( if he has any ) Because he think, so he asked what is logical to him. Had he understand all things? Nay.... not even more than a grain of sand on the beach. Somehow some think that God is like us, because we read that we are made in the image of God?
If one were to look around him carefully , one would see the perfection of all things and be amazed or should one take things for granted?
A buddhist does not care where things come from but where he wants to go. A Hindu thinks the same way and just live his life. Is that all there is? A scientist lives to discover all that are to be discover. Dose he cares who made them? Nay...... Science is branch of learning from what we observed and applied it for our use. Science is not to prove what is true or false but to learn what there is.
Whereas religion is a way of life to guide us as we exist. God has nothing to do with religion or science. One can live without any religion but not science. For science is part of life or else nothing exist.
Yet one can be one with God when he chooses to be. Or dead if he chooses not to be. The choice is yours.
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written by johnT, November 07, 2009 01:24:41
This might be an intresting answer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...PL&index=1
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written by CatV5, November 07, 2009 01:38:29
We have these wide range of instincts...
Curiosity...
Passion...
Discovery...
Scientist fully utilizing these instincts...
Reliance..
Pride..
Upholding...
Religionist mostly fully utilizing these...
Money
Power
Conflict
Materialist fully utilizing these instincts...
Family
Survival
Reproduction
The most ancient mammalian instincts. Almost all of us who doesn't care much about all of those above utilizing these strongly...
So you see everybody have their most highest inner instincts... I would concur nobody is right or wrong. It's just that they didn't realize their most dominant instincts taking over their conscious...
And it is their right for fully utilizing them... and their responsibility to face the consequences....
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written by CatV5, November 07, 2009 01:52:23
Sorry should've explain a bit more..
for the religionist, that includes Patriots, and Racist, terorist.. same behavior different objectives and different degree of action...
Materialist includes politicians, businessman, capitalist, monarchs etc.. rich people have these... we know how they behave...
Scientists also includes explorers, nature lovers, mathematicians, inventors, artist and what not... these guys are junkies when it comes to knowledge.. mat rempits and drug addicts are also in these categories... they are so passionate they sometimes got trapped and don't care about their life...
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written by malaysiaunited, November 07, 2009 02:02:54
Mapillai Petra! My advice to u is don't let inner thoughts be so explicit! You r already half politician with the amount of proposals as NEXT LEADER!
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written by Rohani Hitam, November 07, 2009 04:24:14
The bibles were written from the year 700 BC to 76 AD. We had those from the day of Judaism to Christianity. You can't expect the writers or recorders to understand science. Archbishop James Ushher was not a scientist or astronomer either. So there is no surprise that his assumptions were flawed.
All religions better confine what they can do best and avoid clashes with the scientists. Go and preach salvation to those who lost direction as teaching them science won't make any difference anyway.
This world consists of the intelligent and the dumb. But there are theologians and clerics who think they are scientists. And when they opened their mouths you will see where this stupidity came from.
But I cannot end this contribution without implicating those who capitalise on people who are hungry of spiritual and religious need. Just like the many rulers in history using religion to mainatain loyalty and submissiveness, UMNO/BN is famous and even notoriously surpassing the Pharoahs of Egypt.
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written by KotaDamansara73, November 07, 2009 09:15:39
Basically RPK is a moderate and partially progressive muslim but pro Shariah law man.
Is Shariah law were to be implemented in Malaysia, no matter how good they said shariah law is, you will see an increase in emigration and money out of this country.
I will never recommend any Malaysia to stay in Malaysia if Shariah law is implemented.
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written by jaz, November 07, 2009 09:19:04
Wudan, the ark is not big enough to accommodate 1 dinosaur, not not mention all of them. Hahaha.
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written by cruzeiro, November 07, 2009 09:19:28
Pete,
Nobody can prove the age of the earth - at best, they can hypothesize.
While many creationists seek to interpret the scriptures literally, it can only be understood should they take it as an allegory. Same goes with prophecies -you can mouth them as simply beautiful words, or look for the message between the lines".
It is like reading Lord of the Rings or Narnia - you can see them as allegories (as you should), or simply a fantasy with a good storyline.
Let me ask a simple question - do you think barbarians at the time of Abraham or Moses would've understood (or even be able to fathom) a million years? Do you think Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) meant everything he said literally? No.
They needed to say things in such a way that the people would understand.
Much like how we teach "rocket science" to school children......
So let us not belittle the scriptures written by the inspired men of old, eh? If not for anything else, let us not have another round of "insulting Islam" (or Christianity, for that matter) case on our hands, with a report made by the man with 2 Muhammads to his name
By the way, where is this fella now - very quiet these days, ain't he?
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written by jaz, November 07, 2009 09:20:03
There are many contradictions and hypocrisy in the holy books.
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written by cruzeiro, November 07, 2009 09:45:30
Oh yes - good to know that you're having a good time visiting museums
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written by DontPlayGod, November 07, 2009 09:52:46
How come people still believe in the Adam and Eve fairy tale? If we are all descendents of this couple, then the world will have only one race, and not only that, the human race spread because the children of Adam and Eve committed incest!
Yet science says that more than a hundred million years ago, if we believe in creation, God first created the dinausors, etc. Did he create human beings at that time, too?(more than a hundred million years ago). But our written history of human civilizations date back to only a few thousand years. Adam and Eve must have arrived only say more than 10,000 years or so ago. And how did the scriptures know and write about these two people? Remember the primitive peoples of old lived in caves and in the jungles, and even on trees, without any knowledge of even speech and a written language. Even now there are some peoples in some remote jungle areas who do not have a written language and still live a primitive lives.
Are we to understand, if science is right, i.e. that the dinausors, etc. were created by God more than a hundred million years ago before he even thought of creating human beings. Perhaps, he created the human race as a afterthought. And that too, more than a hundred million years later, after the Jurassic age.
And this is the reason I've always urged people to have an open mind on religions, read and learn(don't limit your reading to only the Koran, read scriptures of other religions). Read all types of books, articles, and writings of expert scientists, etc. And don't become a Taliban or Islamist(beliving in an Islamic state). Yes, keep an open mind and listen and read up on any subjects to learn. Don't be like Jais, etc.
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written by temenggong, November 07, 2009 10:11:12
The Hindu puranas says this current creation is 4.32 billion years old, and that is one manvantara. There are a hundred such manvantaras after which there is Dissolution.
Dinosaur bones have been carbon dated to be 200 million years old. The earliest hominids have been carbon dated to be 4 million years old.
Man has been around for millions of years! So there is no question on science or religion. Religious theories on humans is legends and supersitions based on ignorance or limited knowledge.
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written by cruzeiro, November 07, 2009 10:11:25
Perhaps, he created the human race as a afterthought ....
================================
LOL- Yeah man, maybe it was a plan B after all!!!
But then again, you could always say that "God had a plan" ... a grand design of sorts, and man was just a small part of it - which men in their conceit, think is the crowning glory of "creation" itself!!
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written by eeyaw, November 07, 2009 10:11:37
Pete,nice walk through on a controversial subject but I would assume that GOD creates Religion and gifted humanity with the knowledge of science, the former is based on faith while the latter is through a logical deduction or plainly facts. So I am of the opinion that only GOD knows how old is Earth and when it will end. Everything else is hearsay not to mention what umno & its cohorts claim to know .
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written by cheemengwong, November 07, 2009 11:01:54
A prophetic year would be equal to a thousand years on earth.
God created man on the 6th day and rested on the 7th, therefore earth was around 6,000 years before Adam came around.
The earth would be more than 13,000 years!
But who cares? We only live 3 scores 10. Better spend the time praising and worshipping God correctly, otherwise we shall become another misguided Major Nidah Hassan of Ford Hood army base!
Misguided, misdirected is very serious matter. Everybody is misguided sometimes or another but our compass must be correct one. Which compass? Choose nicely.
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written by myke, November 07, 2009 11:03:37
If u follow science(evolution) then u know religions are bullshits, if you follow religion then u keep your eyes and ears closed to scientific facts.
Do you know of any religious conutry that advanced scientifically.?
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written by johanssm, November 07, 2009 11:26:49
Religion alone cannot provide all the answers as that is not the intention.
Otherwise it will not purposely state the word wisdom and to learn things.
None of the books stated the real age of earth / world or universe
However adam and eve were mentioned .
Maybe as modern day human form as we see today.
We know we are not from adam .
But the story must start from somewhere easily absorb by the commons.
Religion can be only be use as a guide to face daily life and to make life more meaningful instead of more difficult.
It was those people who thinks that they knew more and starts adding more and more things .
Just like those from jais .
Adding more and more things until out of control.
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written by bobdylan, November 07, 2009 11:41:22
God is Dead-Neitzche
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written by bobdylan, November 07, 2009 11:41:53
Neitzcshe is Dead - God
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written by bobdylan, November 07, 2009 11:55:31
Jewish rabbi's say that the first man Adam was gifted with a soul and thus making him the first man, the rest before him were souless, kinda like zombies. Which kinda explains why the 'new man" wiped out the neandthrals and cro magnons. But the idea of a soul dates back millions of years according to history. interesting! God can explain science but science cant explain God. Science is very new, at one end of the spectrum, slowly progressing to the other end where science will meet God and reconsile. When it comes to sprituality, science is dumb founded, it all of a sudden doesn't make sense, thus science denies that Ghost exist. Only God can explain this. Anyway He is a Omniscient and we will never be able to understand Him, not in this life. I quote the Bible....With God nothing is impossible....even the earth's rotation can change at His will. TQ.
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written by gorshan, November 07, 2009 12:12:09
you're here. isnt that proof enough of God, your Creator?
ask yourself this simple questions.
the dust,the men that cames from the dust,the rocks,plants,trees,air,water,earth,sun,stars. where did it comes from?
did something out of nothing just decides to comes into existence, just like that,with a flick of the fingers?
go in a straight line in space.will you ever reach the end? just thinking this one scenario can you makes you go mad.
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a arrogant man of science came face to face with God and says to God "what so great you can create men from clay. so can i. see this lump of clay in my hand? i, too will make a breathing man out of it"
and God said "go ahead, but first create your own clay"
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written by advocatusdiaboli, November 07, 2009 12:31:50
Whyla? U fellas all worried about year 2012 is it? . Lets all go watch the movie shall we?
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written by batsman, November 07, 2009 12:46:02
Does it come as any surprise that the scientists themselves cannot agree on the date of the Big Bang? Some say 30 billions years, some say longer - more like 35 billion. Some even don't agree with the Big Bang theory. Others find it difficult to explain why almost all the laws of physics were broken at the instant of the Big Bang. Common guys! Stop worshiping science! You are fed a load of hogwash and you say it is the god given truth. heeheehee
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written by Mirage, November 07, 2009 13:19:33
RPK,
Whatever the age of earth is, how evolution worked, science or religion has not change the human behaviour of selfishness, and greed neither have we learned from it. While most of us are god fearing ppl, some are using religion for their purposeful gain and when it suites them. Similarly with science, again the use for their own purposeful gain with high tech weapons which eventually determines who is the head of the world.
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written by JJFoo, November 07, 2009 13:30:46
Come-on RPK,
Look for facts, go to the scientists (may not be 100% correct but close). Look for fairy tales go to religious texts. The people of the book aren’t totally at fault as they don’t have the luxury of the scientific facts thousands of years back then. They can only guess and accept what is within their understanding.
If you have a chance of lighting up a lighter in front of a community of early primitive humanoid, I am sure among them there will be a few smart suckers who will call you “GOD” and the rest will have no choice but agree. The few who proclaimed you as god will fright to be your representative or folower as it will come with power over the others and will try their best to glorify you beyond believe just to stay powerfully relevant.
If God really created the Garden of Eden for mankind, then god started his handiworks billions of years ago (earth is about 5 billion years old according to acceptable scientific facts). Earliest modern human written history recorded are about 5,000 years ago and we were taught in school in the 70’s that civilisation started 5,000 years back then, craps! Let presume modern human become “civilised” about 50,000 years ago, against a back span of 5 billion years, mathematically is about 0.001% of the total time God spent on his handiworks. Do you really think mankind of this moment in time could comprehend what “GOD” is really about?
Is it some suckers who wanted to act like God, forbidding everything incomprehensible to their narrow minded mentality in the name God and worst of all, killing in the name of God. Telling everybody what’s God are like or should be like.
God if exist, is sure a sucker, who seems to work in a very mysterious way. Many human thought they are God just because they could count or maybe count better than other. We are worst of than primate trying to figure out how a lighter works when God are concerned. Maybe that’s how God prefer thing to be.
When my daughter was six years old year when she asked “God created man, who created God?” Wanted to answer her “man himself”, it is only the Gods others peoples thought they knew and wanted us to know. Might be too complicated for her, or maybe not but I chooses to hold my tongue, I am still contemplating whether to speak my mind on this matter to her (she is now eight).
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written by temenggong, November 07, 2009 13:42:01
Hominids and chimpanzees diverged from each other 6 to 8 million years ago. Neanderthals and humans split from a common ancestor hominids around 660,000 years ago. Neanderthals became extinct just 14,000 years ago. DNA studies have shown the exoduc out of africa from 140,000 in three waves. The irrefutable evidence is already there.
We are essentially monkeys!
Religious believers should get over it, that they have been very wrong insofar as creation, human evolution and history. They just didn't have the information before. We can say that religions have been a monumental failure in recording human history, it being nothing more than a collection of legends, tales and wishful thinking. Lots of religious ideas collapse with this.
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written by lynn, November 07, 2009 13:53:39
RPK. this is a fairly mild piece. Most readers don't realise yr msg: you play carrom, you hit the red one so that it would bounce off to hit black & white ones. Bingo. Both went into the hole.
As for god's existence, it is a man-made creation. God must appear now, today, this minute to confirm his presence. Such a simple request, he cannot even entertain. But we all know abt the sun, as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. Self-evident. No religious crazies on this earth ever dare to go around & tell people, you must believe in the sun's existence! Because the sun's existence is easily provable.
But god, almighty... cannot be proven but have to be accepted via 'faith' - that's how religions are founded - on the unprovable. Personally, I find some religions are like a big con game. You MUST believe in God to go to heaven. You MUST not question the existence of God. You MUST swallow what they tell you whole. You MUST not ask any questions. Just submit. Yeh, some fcuking xtians tried to convert me, told me to submit. Submissive. Be Obedient. Just Follow Blindly. Yeh right!
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written by lynn, November 07, 2009 13:58:20
Recently I recd a booklet fr a xtian. Inside was this message,"God feels your pain". It instantly reminded me of what Pak Lah said to zombies in bodohland after the disastrous outcome of GE12 for BN, "we hear you". He heard us? He sounded like the priest who said 'god hears us, feels our pain'. It's just bloody empty rhetoric. It's farting via the facial edifice.
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written by umstudent, November 07, 2009 14:08:38
Uncle Pete, have you read the book "The Quran Unchallengeable Miracle"? If you don't, you can read it here. That is if you're interested of course.
http://www.quranmiracles.com/
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written by Super Admin, November 07, 2009 14:18:41
Dear umstudent, have you seen the series of VCDs/DVDs in English and Malay by Harun Yahya which I produced?
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written by umstudent, November 07, 2009 14:42:54
Series of VCDs/Dvds by Harun Yahya?
The dvd/vcd not. As for the guy himself, I've read a few of his article in his website. But since he actually belief in imam Mahdi and second coming of Jesus, which I didn't agree with, I don't explore much about his work. Have seen his book in library refuting Darwin theory of evolution, but since I haven't read about Darwin's theory yet, I guest I'll read it some other time, God willing.
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written by siewchinteo, November 07, 2009 15:17:24
Thanks for the laugh Eagle22
So now that we know how old earth is, give or take a couple of million years, will it die soon?
and i mean a natural death and not murdered.....
by MAN.
speaking of which, how old is mankind?
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written by Rohani Hitam, November 07, 2009 15:42:26
DontPlayGod,
I think you are a lot confused. Scientists did not say that God created the dinasaurs hundreds over million years ago. Scientists said that all living things evolved without a creator. Before the dinasaurs there were trillions and trillions of species including plants colonised the earth. The earth is more than 3 billion yrs old and how do we know? Read things on paleanthology, geomophology and natural sciences. You are eons behind modern knowledge my dear friend.
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written by Rohani Hitam, November 07, 2009 16:01:32
umstudent,
You are too slow in pursuing knowledge. I don't think reading Darwin's book will make any change to you. You should have strong knowledge on bilology to understand Darwin and you should have read it during your secondary education.
If you happen to grab and read his books always remember that he propounded the theory not based on opinion but supported by his findings on the diversification of species and how isolation has evolved them to acquire specific characteristics. The study of evolution doesn't stop with Darwin but modern scientific knowledge has progressed fo far that reading his book can be a good start but can be a bad approach. All depend on you to pursue knowledge and not reading articles which disputed the theory and you end up confused or reject the theory for reasons I found very very stupid.
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written by Rohani Hitam, November 07, 2009 16:12:19
batsman,
I think you are reading too much books that lack credibility. Concentrate on New Scientist, Nat Geographic or even the Times or Newsweek. All credible scientists agree that a big bang has occured as the traces of the explosive event are still being received. You are right that all atoms and molecules behavior defied modern physics during its initial stage milliseconds before expanding in massive explosion and expansion. That scientist cannot create the situation in the laboratory as the temperature and pressure is near finitesimal. How many years ago tjat big bang took place is simple that we thought it was 20 billions but new findings suggest that it is even more than that.
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written by bobdylan, November 07, 2009 16:12:39
Dear Melly,
Cain and Abel married their own sisters. The bible that you read has ommited many books like the book of Enoch and The life of Adam.(refer to wikipedia on Adam) Also Adam's life overlapped until before the Flood which could explain the other people. Anyway, Adam was the 1st homosapien.....so the others on earth could have been ...example homoerectus. I mean they ve found "Lucy" dating back about 30000 years ago. Adam is only 6000 years according to reliogionist. See science is explaining about God's creation.
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written by umstudent, November 07, 2009 16:25:56
Dear Rohani Hitam.
Sorry if it bother you I'm too slow in pursuing knowledge, but I didn't take biology so I guest maybe that's why I haven't read about his work yet. Beside, maybe because I'm only in my 3rd year of my undergraduate engineering courses contribute to me not knowing enough about this theory of evolution. But hey, people can come out with thousand of excuses, right? Sorry again if it bother you.
As for the Harun Yahya, the article from him that I've read is not about how he refuted the Darwin theory, but article about the Mahdi and second coming of Jesus which I didn't agree and most of it based on conjencture and made up stories. That made me less interested in his work.
And for once, where did you find I've said I've rejected Darwin theory of evolution? I only said I didn't read his book yet, therefore I didn't read the book that want to prove his theory is wrong. What's wrong with that?
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written by Rohani Hitam, November 07, 2009 16:29:44
Melly,
You got trouble in understanding human evolution. Don't try to connect homo erectus with the bible. They are two separate doctrine. Lucy's ancestors also evolved from the earlier homonid and in no way at any time Lucy or her descendants for that matter has evolved to become Adam. Scientists say that we evolved away from the other apes some 8 million years ago. The other apes evolved too but remain much of their characteristics as the natural selection revolved around them living in the jungle or trees. Some came down to earth occasionally but human made drastic changes due to environmental pressure that selects the best to propagate like what we are now. We have developed so much skill that it has increased our survivability until today.
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written by Rohani Hitam, November 07, 2009 16:55:45
Dear umstudent,
I must apologise for the sudden outburst. I was too engrossed with other contributions that I may have confused along the way. Anyway just be careful what you read as there are many "professors" out there.
But I have to caution you that the theory of evolution (Origin of Species) by Darwin and later by all the credible naturalists, paleonthologist and anthropologists supporting him further is in contrary with the teaching of the Creation (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). So may choose to avoid reading it as it may not be good for your faith. But if you insisted, read them as a source of modern scientific knowledge and just explore other experts findings and theories.
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written by DontPlayGod, November 07, 2009 20:10:35
Rohani Hitam,
No, I am not the the least confused. I think you are. Religions like Islam and Chrisitianity says that God created the world and all things in the universe and all living things. But science says that the dinausors, and the Jurassic Age are 70 to more than a hundred million years old. But the human race, how old is it? Did God create the human race during the Jurassic Age(more than a 100 million years ago) which means Adam and Eve must be more than a hundred million years ago.
Is this possible? That means the human race is more than a 100 million years old, if we believe in God and creation. And how did we get to know of Adam and Eve if they came into being more than a 100 million years ago. But written records of history is only less than 5000 years old and the Chinese claim that their civilization is the oldest continuous civilization.
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written by Umar Rentaka, November 08, 2009 11:04:50
Dear Rohani Hitam,
have you read "Nature's IQ" by Balazs Hornyyanszky nad Istvan Tasi?
If not, please do get a copy or write to me.
svcdas@yahoo.comThis e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
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written by Umar Rentaka, November 08, 2009 11:10:00
http://www.naturesiq.com/reviews.html
for reviews of this book: Nature"s IQ
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written by Umar Rentaka, November 08, 2009 11:12:41
A Positive Contribution to Humanity
In scientific circles the theory of evolution is widely accepted as factual. Books like Nature’s IQ remind us, however, that it is only a theory, and a theory with serious drawbacks at that. Traditionally it has been difficult to explain how entirely new organs composed of parts that must be simultaneously present for their functionality could actually evolve. Although theories such as that of co-option attempt to account for these, they actually fall short, and end up sounding like so much storytelling in the name of science, with little factual evidence supporting them. Nature’s IQ shows that complex behavior often associated with new organs is also difficult to explain in an evolutionary way, and the book offers many, many colorfully illustrated examples.
It addition to challenging evolutionary conceptions and proposing a version of intelligent design, Nature’s IQ offers an explanation from ancient India’s vast collection of writings as an alternative. This is coupled with references to empirical studies consistent with the Vedic world view. Thus Nature’s IQ has more of a positive contribution to offer humanity than most literature questioning the viability of evolutionary theory.
The philosophical questions introduced at the end of each chapter for which an answer is promised in final chapter create curiosity and generate an interest to read further and are a nice touch.
I recommend this book to anyone seriously interested in science and the origin and meaning of life. —Christopher Beetle, Computer Science, Brown University
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written by Umar Rentaka, November 08, 2009 11:20:26
A Novel Contribution to the Intelligent Design Literature
Hungarian scientists Balazs Hornyanszky and Istvan Tasi offer a novel contribution to the intelligent design literature by extending Michael Behe's theory of irreducible complexity from biological form to biological behavior. Where did the mysterious instincts of animals originate? Nature's IQ.
The authors document more than 100 astonishing, unexplained phenomena from the animal kingdom, with 200 amazing color pictures. The authors point out how Darwinian "just so" stories fail to explain these irreducibly complex instincts and behaviors. This book is a valuable addition to any library for it's amazing photos of animal life and it's catalog of fascinating animal behavior regardless of whether you believe they were a product of random mutations and natural selection or a product of artful, purposeful design............
— Access Research Network
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written by carribeanking7, November 08, 2009 15:55:14
Does it really matter ? At one point some religionist opined the earth was flat.
Where we (Humanity) are going is infinitely more important thanwhere we have been, we bicker endlessly about yesterday and tommorow, while we do very little about the here and now.
desiderata - by max ehrmann
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.
Take kindly to the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
Vijay Kumar Murugavell
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written by Rohani Hitam, November 08, 2009 23:10:15
Hi DontPlay God,
"But science says that the dinausors, and the Jurassic Age are 70 to more than a hundred million years old. But the human race, how old is it?"
======================================================= =========================
Human evolved from hominid form to become homo sapiens. Between the hominid to homo sapien there were other evolving species like the autralophitecus africanus, homoerectus etc and finally homo sapien sapien and that is what we are. Our ancestors were separated from the other hominid (e.g primitive apes) some 3-8 million years ago and they too evolved on their own.
"Did God create the human race during the Jurassic Age(more than a 100 million years ago) which means Adam and Eve must be more than a hundred million years ago"
======================================================= ===========================
According to science there was no creator. Life started on earth 2 billion years ago from a simple cell and now we have diversification, thanks to evolution.The dinasaurs existed frome 250 to 60 million years ago while homo sapien is less than 1 million years. Sorry the dinasaurs had never got a chance to meet human as they became extinct 60 million years ago.
And how did we get to know of Adam and Eve if they came into being more than a 100 million years ago.
======================================================= ===========================
Sorry my friend the story of Adam and Eve appeared in the Jewish scriptures during 400 to 100 BC. Some jokers calculated the year tobe 4000BC. Science in not in the mood to buy the argument that there was Adam and Eve. They are just human creation trying to figure out how they exist. They have no access to scientific knowledge so you cannot blame them.
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written by Steven Ong, November 08, 2009 23:31:53
All the arguments and statements about creations and man shows that we are a lost tribe on a planet spinning since when, no one knows. From these, would we not agreed that science can explained how things work and hypothesize about others? And religion is all about morality and right living? The sciptures of all religions are just a moral story to teach us about living right. The scriptures are also a history of the people in the books. So Adam and Eve are just the ancestor of the people around the Middle East? The Jews and the Arabs are the descendents of Adam and Eve as the scriptures says. So there must be other Adams and Eves around the earth? These are some questions we can think of.
Evolution is just a hypothesis put forward by Darwin. If it is true then we are also evolving into a new creature as evolution theory teaches about constant transformation of the world. But do we look different from the time history was written? Not a bit. Do we need wings to fly as the birds? And what about all other living creatures? A dog is still a dog from the begining. Would one day a dog become a man? Why would a dog wants to remain a dog? If one were to look around, all living things existing today are perfect in their own ways. Can one improves any existing single thing? A dog, a cat or a banana tree? Nay........... improving the yeild or chaging the colours does not in any way change its original form. So Darwin's theory of evolution is just a hypothesis and not the truth.
To the atheist, all they believed is what they are and what there is. They just live, work to live and enjoy ,then they die. Its their faith sort of. So by faith we live and follows a set way of life as we think its right. We shouldnt be arguing about this and that, but to find ways that all agreed ,to live together peacefully and enjoy all the things there is together. By right, there shouldnt be any poor or hungry. And we are arguing and fighting each other to see who is right and selfishly oppressing and persecuting others to proves it. An evil and wicked generation indeed.
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written by Rohani Hitam, November 09, 2009 00:13:46
Hi Steve Ong,
I like your part of your last paragraph tha we should stop arguing and find ways that all can agree so that we can live peacefully. Infact that is what atheists think.
And you got all the knowledge on evolution all distorted. Dogs and bears come from the same ancestors 10 million years ago. So you never met them. We only know through the fossils we excavated.It takes many million years to achieve physical changes. So you never get to see in your lifetime unless you can live that long. Nothing is perfect in this world my friend. Changes take place both to the physical earth and the living organisms like human. How do we look in one million years time? Try to live that long and see for yourself.
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written by Aria, November 09, 2009 18:10:08
Malaysia is a multi-religious and multi-race country.Religion should not be part of politics. Politicians should not make decisions based on religion or race rather on what is right for the country. Politicians should not incite hate on another race or religion. Politicians should not suppress another race or religion, rather give help where it is needed. We are all Malaysians regardless of race or religion and should be treated equally.
Ultimately you will find that we were all created by one god.
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written by SamBall, November 10, 2009 01:49:33
Why worry about how it (life, earth etc..)started?
It will all end in 2012; according to the Mayans/science anyway.
OK, OK go watch the movie; just seen it, very real!
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written by partytrooper, November 10, 2009 03:30:37
can we talk about ufos now?
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written by JUST, November 10, 2009 05:19:25
If there is GOD, the KPI needs improvement
Justice must be served............
Evils shall subject to eternity of God’s retribution!
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written by Devoe, November 10, 2009 16:28:53
Religion is created by human itself. So why argue more?You can't change others' beliefs and so do them. Religion is teaches us in positive way. But I believe the existence of heaven and hell.
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written by Steven Ong, November 10, 2009 23:01:38
Dear Rohani Hitam,
You must be a believer in evolution? How do you know that dogs and bears comes from the same ancestor or man evolved from apes? From the fossils? The fossils are just the left over of existing live forms. If one sees a fossil of the one age and than the next age and concludes that since the fossils are quite similar minus this or added that, it must have evolved from the previous , its just a hypothesis. Since no one actually saw it, its just a hypothesis of the human mind. That is how they think that man evolves from apes. If that is true, then why are there still apes around? Or would one conclude that the unlucky or less intelligent apes did not evolved. There should be races that looks half like apes and half man. Why there isnt any? If evolutionist try to explain this . Its just another hypothesis.
If evolution is correct, then maybe the Indians evolved from the Chinese and the Malays from the Indians. Then the Moaries evolved from the Malays as they moves from north to south? Then our ancestor are one and the same? The Eskimos? Then we are all brothers and sisters. Why are we fighting? We listen to the devil too much maybe.
And if God created all , then why cant we all live together as equal and share all things? As all belongs to God. ?
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written by Rohani Hitam, November 11, 2009 05:03:18
Hi Steve Ong,
I am a bit sceptical whether to reply to you. Your understanding of paleanthology is so distorted that I don't think I can convince you in any way.
It is no surprise that you attacked evolutioninary theory in your own interpretation. Evolution is not what you have perceived. That is why you are attacking a distorted theory that is in the first place created by you. Creationists attacked the theory because it threatens the fundemental teaching of human origin - created by God.
I have mentioned previously that living organisms including human evolve at the pace you cannot detect during your lifetime. Biologically this is not possible. The body just simply cannot mutate so fast like what you see in movies. And it is not the same kind of evolutionary process that each species would undergo. The change may be accelerated or slowed down all because nature "selects" the best to survive and those unable to survive would become extinct and all the characteristics that the species has acquired for the last biilion of years will go to nothing. Examplethe dinasaurs.
Apes evolved without you knowing it. Their ancestors are common to today's human. These ancestors of theirs were more ape-like but do not look like modern apes. Modern apes cannot evolve into human because they have taken a different direction in the evolutionary process. You can turn the clock and try again and they may even look different than what you see today. It is a matter of chance and survivability. The environment can be more influencing like food, weather, habit and competition for food.
Read more on biology and paleanthology to understand the sientific work behind the study of human evolution. You need to free your mind from all the misrepresentation. Take the study of biolgy or natural science as a hobby and talk to university lecturers in biological sciences then you can appreciate the beauty of sciences. Your mind is presently too distorted to fully comprehend and only through positive sense of inquisitiveness can make the change. You must know that science has advanced too far for you to catch up. You asked how do we know that certain fossil belongs to which species and ancetors. Ask the expert.
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written by Nicole, November 11, 2009 11:13:41
It's easy...for those who believe in religious then go on with that and those who believe to this science then go on with your science world....we have our own beliefs and we free to choose what we want to believe. This article just want to give us the information, differences between Religious belief and this science theory. It is up to you, which one you prefer...
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written by lynn, November 11, 2009 20:33:54
Once a upon a time, there was this cocky, perpetually smiling born-again bigtime christian who happens to be a billionaire & a crony. He held a dinner in a posh upperclass restaurant in KL. His guests attended in the mistaken belief that he had some great idea(s) that night which would make them filthy rich. He told his envious guests something to this effect: he is a billionaire today because his God loves him more than He loved the rest in the restaurant! My friend who attended went out, called me after he/she puked! Now, how could God play favourites? How could this so-called almighty god gives preferential treatment or practise discrimination?
I told my friends, fcuk his God. The cocky asswipe offended a lot of people with that statement by saying God loves him most since he's a billionaire.
Years ago, my sister-in-law married the governor from one state in the US. My other in-laws commented, well, Wilma is now going to live in the governor's mansion! Together with round-the-clock security detail, servants, driver, blah blah. They consoled themselves by saying "we will live in God's mansions some day!" There are people who believe in that crap. Mansions in the sky. Pie in the sky.
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written by andray, November 12, 2009 11:26:03
How wonderful if you believe in GOd believe in you religion...and you are knowledgeable if you know the science theory.....Both will make your life complete.
Religious knowledgeable...
